Building The Parallel Society: Rayo

Rayo, Founder of the Vonu podcast and the Coordinator of the Free Republic of P.A.Z.NIA, a worldwide network of people building the parallel society dubbed the Second Realm. After waking up to reality and listening to Bill Cooper, Rayo founded the Vonu Podcast in February of 2015 with over 170 episodes that aim to spread truth, offer solutions and outline practical steps everyone can take to increase their independence and freedom. This led him to create the Free Republic of P.A.Z.NIA, a community that anyone can join to contribute to the Second Realm.

In this podcast:
.Rayo's story and the founding of the Vonu podcast
.Building the Second Realm – a parallel society of autonomy alongside the current system
.Living in Mexico and moving back to the US
.Getting started building a homestead and founding the community called the free Republic of Paznia
.Decentralized decision-making and structure of the Paznia community
.Eating a New Zealand carnivore diet
.Practical steps to get started on your journey to freedom and liberation

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Join the Paznia Community: www.paznia.com/join

Transcript

George Papp  0:23  
Welcome to the Renegade Lifestyle Podcast with me George Pappseeking to empower you with practical strategies and information to exit the matrix by speaking to experts and individuals making a difference. quick plug, check out the renegade lifestyle membership. Get access to our monthly research newsletter live webinars, which is obviously packed with insider and detailed content from the team and special guests. We also help you build your own freedom, business or location, independent income, improved health, spiritual journey, sort of guidance as well from the team who have been actively part of this sort of community who have done the work, and much, much more. Our aim is ultimately to help you move away from a system that doesn't serve you rise above the matrix and be ungovernable. Today we are joined by Rayo of the Vonu podcast which I had the pleasure to be on a couple months back, the podcast making you invulnerable to the coercion of the state and the and the servile society. I had the pleasure of being a guest, as I said, great guy. Welcome to the show, Rayo. Thanks for joining. How's it going?

Rayo of Vonu Podcast  1:31  
Hey, man, it's great to be here. Appreciate the invitation. Yeah, we had a really, really great, great conversation. You know, it's kind of I know who you were Oh, so you know, Matthew Amer connected us. And you know, anything math, any anyone, Matthew points, my direction, I know is going to be someone worthwhile. So that was obviously the case. And yeah, I'm good to get to be here and good to have another conversation. Thanks, man.

George Papp  1:50  
Yeah, Matthew is great. I'm still in contact with him quite heavily. He's just, he's a great guy. We've had him on the show as well. He's, he's doing some great work in tech as well. So yeah, I mean, it's great to have those connections. And that's how it works, right? sort of quick note to the listeners, really just build the network, you get to meet amazing people doing amazing things. You learn from each other. And I think building that community is, even though not in person, it's definitely something that's really beneficial to, to not, I don't like saying movement, but to yourself and to the community who are looking for freedom for sure. So yeah, Ray, I guess we'll start with, like I do with most guests is is the story behind your work and where you started and how you got to sort of be doing what you're doing now with wanting? And yeah, basically your path to where you are?

Rayo of Vonu Podcast  2:44  
Sure, sure. Yeah. Um, so I guess my, my, my past started when I was, I guess, age 19, or 20, I think I was a 19 or 20. I stumbled across, there was a somewhat across a documentary on Netflix called 911. loose change, which I wouldn't necessarily agree with everything in there now. But nonetheless, it was, you know, really important and setting me on a, you know, the path that I'm on today. Not long after I, you know, I found a Bill Cooper, who did a radio show back in the 90s called air of the time, and wrote a book called Beehold a pale horse. And yeah, I was I came across when I was like, 21, I was working at a moving company. So I just packed people's houses. I had headphones, and I just listened to Bill Cooper for like, eight hours a day. And yeah, I mean, obviously, it was, it was, yeah, it was definitely definitely influential. And so yeah, I've listened to basically all 2000 hours of his archives, which I think are still up, I hope are still up. And yeah, I eventually, in 2015, you know, I was looking around and, you know, looking around for radio and podcasts, and I really couldn't see anyone out there that was doing what Bill was doing, you know, I guess, and I didn't see anyone that was out there, you know, spreading the message of truth and freedom that he did. And then, so it kind of started he was a constitutionalist, so you know, more and more kind of a monarchist. And so I started the call the started the podcast, or the radio show in February of 2015. Kind of from that, that mindset, and then it wasn't, you know, much wasn't long after that I came across, you know, some, you know, some scores and free market folks. And then, yeah, I went down the Austrian economics rabbit hole, and for about six months, and I read, you know, human action, and you know, it really deep into those pads, and then eventually got to a point where it's like, I can go into all the nuance and the details and learn about the Austrian business cycle theory. And, but like, as, it's like, at that point, I was like, okay, the free markets way to do it. Coercion is wrong, like, what are we gonna do about it? And, you know, physical space and time. So, very, very quickly, early on in my radio pass hype, I switched over, we did? Well, in 2016, we started with what I called the direct action series. We went like it was like six months, it was a six month live radio series, where we, you know, just covered solutions in depth and it wasn't obviously as organized or coherent as what I put out now, I think, but nonetheless, that was like the the Bid my big my big first task was people always always ask me like, well, what will so what did we do then? Like if you have all the if you have solutions give us solutions. I was like, Okay, here's like 100 Plus, go have fun. And it was it was just Perfect saying that perfect thing. So yeah, I guess soon after that I found Vanu, which is briefly briefly defined as volunteer, I guess it's an awkward contraction towards voluntary not vulnerable. And it's the it's basically becoming as invulnerable to coercion as humanly possible from the from public coercers, governments and private coercers just private individuals, you know, private pilot, private, private violators personal property, and got someone across that book and it was huge, you know, right, right, the guy who the guy was us, but what, by the pseudonym of radio, people started started calling me radio. So I call myself out to now but essentially, he, this this random guy from the 60s, the 60s is very obscure guy who, no one to know about him if it wasn't for one, you know, crazy archive is kind of like me now, I guess back in the 70s 60s and 70s doing it, you know, archiving libertarian scenes. But yeah, this guy was a radical freedom pioneer in the 60s, he saw the world a lot like we do today, back in the 60s, and so much so that he's radical, you know, lifestyle changes to escape the tyranny of the civil society. And he started as a fan Nomad, and and really saw the viability in mobility. You know, I know we talked about on we talked about, you know, I guess, strategic relocation, and the, in our discussion, well, he was, I guess, he was an engineer, and he made a lot of his money, he made his money in the States and, and went, and I guess, at times, you know, spent his money and, you know, Caribbean islands or, you know, Canada or somewhere else. So he taught me more utilize multiple, multiple jurisdictions. But yeah, he was he was he was Rando, Matt. And then he realized that that wasn't a freedom for him. And he decided to go live in a tent and the Siskiyou forest, which is Northern California, Southern Oregon. So this guy was really, really radical back in the 60s. And I guess, kind of set the trajectory of like, the most radical path of that you really can take as if a new and obviously, there's one of the mantras of Vonu is Vonu is yours for the making. It's very, it's very customizable, really, as long as you're taking steps to make yourself more invulnerable to coercion, then you're renewing, obviously, like, it's a hard, it's hard core philosophy. So like, I wouldn't just say like, they're like, it wouldn't just be like that generic, but you could kind of get what I'm saying, if people are taking active steps to to increase their freedom or their deliberate vulnerability, coercion, then yeah, they're essentially have been doing. So yeah, I guess that's a brief overview of Vanu and I guess, to say, that was in 2016. We started that podcast. And yeah, I guess since then, it's just been, it's, I guess, there are a couple other big things too. I went to Acapulco for for a couple months and live there. And then came out here and started started the homestead here in Southern Illinois. So now I'm out here 22 acres with chickens, turkeys and ducks. Got lambs and goats. We just processed our rabbit. So we had rabbits up until a couple months ago. And we've got you know, big gardens. Lots of stuff. So I mean, we're, it's so it's this the start here for our node and in the past the network, the sacrum network that we're building. And it's kind of I don't know, maybe the, you know, maybe an example people can follow you know, how to take how to take home set off grid, because we're going really into you know, really deep top, you know, really big topics too, because sacrum was about rebuilding all of human society, upon a foundation of peace, truth and volunteerism. So like, obviously, health and wellness, you know, food, infrastructure, all of these things are super important. They're part of the human experience, we need to we need to have our own, we need to barrel build, I guess, build or run or an alternative, alternate alternatives. I can talk. But yeah, we got to build our own Sure. Our own alternatives, for sure.

George Papp  8:31  
Yeah, I mean, you can see mainstream, mainstream health mainstream living mainstream, just pretty much everything is to basically counteract what you're naturally meant to do in a sense of freedom, you're, you're being limited on everything. They're trying to kill you in their health systems. They're trying to limit you to having to rely on debt and banking for having a house that you want, or you want, like I said, not need. And then it's interesting what you said before actually about information. A lot of people just gather so much information, but don't take the active steps. And I think this is about mobilization, and taking that first step to actually improve that in your own life. And then once you can do that in your own life, you can then help others. And I think that's really how you spread the community to grow and to help, I guess, the world in general, right? Eventually, that is, well, that is the goal really, is to, I guess, first help yourself, but only to have the end goal of helping others. And it's great stuff that you're doing incorporating every single part of society, which is important. It's a holistic approach, because we have to take a holistic approach, in my opinion, just all aspects of life and make sure that is in alignment and definitely not aligned to the mainstream, which is basically the inversion of what is what is good. So excellent stuff. So you touched upon the second realm, you touched upon the second realm. I've seen it on your website. What does it mean? What does it mean to the viewers? Sorry to listeners? So what does the second realm actually entail? And what's the definition?

Rayo of Vonu Podcast  10:19  
Sure, sure. So the second realm as far as like this, the freedom context, I guess, there might be video games or something out there that use the terminology. But at least in this in this context, there's a book that was released called second book on strategy, by a guy by by a guy named smuggler, and XYZ, whoever XYZ is, but I've interviewed smuggler a few times, he's on Twitter, he's, he's kind of he's kind of out there, really, really hardcore crypto anarchists stuff and doing this for a very, very long time. But anyway, that idea of the second realm is, you know, basically recognizing and acknowledging that there are, you know, I guess, the, I guess, I guess, recognizing the stability of the civil society, and the coercion of it, and I guess, trying to build a build that parallel society. So the first realm would be basically the, I guess, the sort of the strip, the the first one will be the civil society, it's, you know, what's, you know, what I'm sure what motivates you to do this podcast and your listeners to listen to your podcast, and to do to use your services is to increase their freedom, they've recognized that that that society is not one of freedom. So that's the first realm. And the second realm is the way that I guess the simple way I put it now is, yeah, the second realm is, you know, that I guess that parallel society that, you know, the puck, I guess, yeah, pockets of freedom, we're gonna we can actually exercise our autonomy. That's kind of the law, but it's based upon a lot of different like, Premier autonomous zones and temporary autonomous zones. So I guess, permanent pockets of freedom and temporary ones, you're speaking in terms of mobility. And yeah, and I think one I'll point people if the book is free, the audiobook is out on the Vonu podcast, podcast feed. But it's like, it's I always say like, it's the most important book, I've written a book, my book, shit, go read their book. Yeah, second book on strategies, the most important book to read, you know, and like in terms of strategy, for sure. And, you know, we're talking about all human institutions you talked about that talked about the importance of second realm culture, like having our own art and music and such that's focused upon. That's like, you know, foundation, like encouraging and empowering versus the, you know, the mundane nonsense that you find, or even, I guess, opposite of mundane, right, some of its really overt, you know, just garbage. So, yes, I guess all aspects of the human experience. So we're trying to build Yeah, the second realm. Yeah, that's, that's kind of the concept of it. And

George Papp  12:36  
it's interesting, because even arts we we take, even we don't really look at that, but you know, music is, is massive influence. And in regards to frequencies and how it works with the human brain, you know, really touches into your ego, a lot of the music so it makes you act in a certain way. It's just, it's just interesting, where, you know, you can overlook that very easily. But that is, again, part of the holistic approach. You mentioned actually before about Acapulco. So you lived in Acapulco, what how did you find that experience? Because a lot of people I guess, who live in the US or Canada or wherever they see Mexico as okay, you know, this is the place to be because there's a lot more freedom. The government doesn't have as much control in those areas. What is your from someone who's lived there, and has now moved to the US back again? What's what's your experience been a living in Mexico and be moving back? And what was the reason for moving back?

Rayo of Vonu Podcast  13:40  
Yeah, so the way I got down there, I moved to kind of 2018 Was it really sporadic year I'm made of random moved right random decision to move to Austin, Texas to move in with my co host of the Vonu podcast that time. Somebody's been with him for a couple months, and then he had a quick change of living situation. And I had to find new place to live in Austin, Texas, which is super effing expensive, you know, very quickly, so I wasn't sure what I was going to do. And one of my buddies, Jason Henza reached out to me and said, hey, I'll be stopping by Austin. I can pick you up and you can come stay in Acapulco for you know, come stay with me in Acapulco for a month and a half for a couple months and see how you like it because he kind of saw it as a second realm. Right. So he wanted me to experience it. So I went there for a month and a half we lived we didn't live in I guess in Acapulco proper but we looked further down I guess down the road in a town called Bondville. And you know, block away from the beach it was you know, I guess that part of it was just it was it was incredible obviously do relaxing and invigorating and you know go into the central market which is you know, a lot more gorgeous than anything assuming you see dead carcasses dead animal carcasses hanging off you can go you know, get a whole cow with you or you know get a whole lamb if you want to or whatever if you don't see in the in the states so that was you know, that was certainly unique. I guess the I suppose. I guess I won't mention those. Those those couple things, but I guess the interactions with with with Coursers pledges down there are a lot different than ones in the US. So if you get pulled over a lot of times you can pay a cheap bribe and get away without any that any issue. And in some cases, you can even run away and they don't even chase after you and they won't even do anything. So I guess like so I guess that's, that's one thing, we came across a toll booth. And like they had the normal toll booth toll booth workers in there, you know, in the booths. But I guess the local cartella taken over the toll booth and they were charging like a fourth less than what the toll booth was charging. So they were standing in front of the toll booths taking the money. And then the cops are on the other side watching it happen. And we'll just let in the cars are so I mean, it's obviously that, obviously, like your arms cartel members, but they're saving us money on the tools. So I mean, take it for what ticket for what you will. And then I guess the the reason I came back was I came back for the holidays, um, to spend spend time with my family. And I was gonna go back for an Acapulco, which was happening in February, but in like, as was like February 1 2019, a couple people that I've, you know, friends of mine, and Henza, John and Lily up in Acapulco, which I'm sure you heard about it was on mainstream, you know, national news at that time. They had, they had someone you know, shoot up at their house, and John and John got shot and killed, and Henza got shot and luckily survived. But so after that, I kind of decided I wasn't gonna go back for an Acapulco that quickly because I was Penza. And now we're at that place, you know, where that happens, you know, multiple times a week, a lot. So if I would have been Acapulco, I probably would have been there with him. So I kind of I really didn't have I'm not I'm not really afraid to go back, I guess, per se but I really just don't have any motivation. There's, I don't really have time to travel at this point, you know, managing the homestead and getting, you know, trying to get this this network setup. But yeah, that's pretty much the reason in my, I guess the the conclusion, or I guess my my overall view now is, I mean, it's just like Vonu like, it's radical self liberation, right. So, if you're gonna, if you're a radical freedom pioneer, you can find a lot of opportunities in Mexico, but you have to be aware that, you know, they're obviously dangers that come with it too. As with everything goes right, trade offs. So as I know, like Henza, Henza still spends six months in Mexico, so it didn't scare him away. He obviously doesn't live in Acapulco, which Acapulco is. It's funny because it you hear from a lot of like, anarchists that like oh, what's this? You know, how the freedom? You know, how many like military was there like the military would you know, like, there was a lot of cops, a lot of military. It was a police state essentially. So like Acapulco itself. So we never had any issues and that you know, Acapulco, but with them but Mexico City, Mexico City cops will try to extort you, if you if you look white. Just Just so you know, if anyone was going through Mexico, we are pulled over twice in Mexico City within like five minutes by different cops was crazy. But anyway, I guess that's the that's the long and short of it. Yeah. Yeah,

George Papp  17:56  
it's I mean, it's a capital capital cities. And so I mean, they always they're always a little bit more, you know, strict and they have more resources in those areas. But it's interesting that you that you had that experience, because I You hear a lot about the cartels and stuff. And obviously, they they do have more of the more control over there in a sense, which has its positives, right? Because the government haven't got as much control. But obviously, the negatives, I guess, are that you know, they are still doing some kind of coercion and control themselves, but probably actually at a lesser price. In regards to taxes. You pay them for, like protection, which they extort from you obviously, like just like the government, but probably cheaper. But yeah, this this is the reality in Mexico, I guess. So yeah, let's talk about your homestead. Now. How long have you been there? How long did it takes a set up? What What were the processes of getting that set up? Why did you even decide to have a homestead? I know, obviously, there are many reasons you can be you can be more self sufficient and not rely on any issues within food shortages or any government policies, you know, you're more self sufficient. Right. But also it does tie you down to a specific spot. So yeah, just wanted to get your gauge on that and what what your experiences are of having a homestead and, and yeah, the process of of getting that done.

Rayo of Vonu Podcast  19:27  
Yeah, so I guess just one one final thing to tie up that last conversate people were interested more in the story. It actually came out on an HBO HBO series called Anarchists so if you want to hear that entire story, and a lot about the anarchists community down there, you can actually go watch it on HBO, which is strange. But anyway, yeah, so So the homestead I guess, I guess I got back here like February of 2019. My my parents my family's own land out here for a long time. My family's lived out here for a long time. And I guess this just 22 Acres is here. My parents bought it, I guess back when I was like 16 or 17 thinking that maybe someday I'd want to live out here which I never had any prospects of, of doing even then I just kind of came back here to figure out, you know what I was going to do next. And I, you know, got here and you know kind of got settled in a little bit and tried to do a batch my first batch of chickens was just like six or seven wasn't really, you know, big. So just chicken coop on the property already. So I figured I'd try it. They didn't survive. I didn't get anything from the first first or the second batch of chickens that I did. But yeah, that was that was kind of the start. It was it was kind of just sporadic. And I had I had it, I had it here and and I just start I kind of started messing around with it. So the chickens were the first first venture which was unsuccessful chicken coops and sealed up that well. And the raccoons are very vicious around here. We lost. We moved over, we moved over birds to a new bird area this year. And we lost like 20 Ducks we have a lot of birds, but we lost like, you know, 20 birds over the course like a week or two just they come in and you don't get one or two and just send it out. But so yeah, 2020 happens. And I kind of I just started I guess in 2019, John and Willie and Acapulco had adopted a carnivore diet and they've gone through major transformation there just a couple of months that I've seen them there. So I started making lifestyle changes and New Zealand carnivore diet and I was like holy shit, meat goes out of beat runs out in the grocery store. I'm screwed. So I went and got some wings and gloves. So that guess that was not necessarily good. Like doing things out of fear isn't necessarily a good thing. But I'll admit it, you know, admit it here. Yeah, but it was it was all for the best, it was all for the best. So I got the first first lambs and goats and kind of got my foot wet in that area. And then Henza came back and visited in May. And I just kind of had this inclination like I don't see why can I play for a festival called balling fest. So you might people out here at the homestead didn't think they would. But anyway, a couple of months later a month or two down the road. And it turned into not just a festival, but a whole, a whole deck, I guess declaring my independence from America essentially started the free Republic of Paznia, and ended up having like 20 or 30 people out here for the founders for the founders meeting at the cost the Constitution right behind me. And we had, you know, 20-30 people out here to sign it was a huge, great event. And, you know, really caught you know, we've got, you know, the free the free Republic that the parallel society started.

George Papp  22:10  
How does, how does that work? How does that work? Paznia because I have a, I have some questions in regards to like, decision making in a community because I feel like if it gets too large, you disconnect from the decisions. Right? So how does it work? How do you guys operate there? Yeah.

Rayo of Vonu Podcast  22:36  
So, just so I mean, it's kind of, I mean, I guess the way that it started, but the initial 20 or 30 people the so everyone out everyone that comes out to to Veritas plasma here is vetted, by me personally. So a lot of these people that I've known for, like five plus years been noted in the glass piece and pretty fast for a long time. So that that is, you know, for, you know, for large communities, large organizations, yeah, dispute resolution, and things like that are huge, like, you got to look at those things, because there's gonna be, you know, humans get together, there's gonna be disagreements. But what I guess the way that I forego that, because that's a really hard problem, you know, literature and participants written about this, you know, anarcho capitalist, if and writing about, you know, problem of Dr. Rose and private arbitration for, like, 100 years. So, like, it's not an easy problem to solve. So I kind of tried to forego that by, by vetting, and, you know, associating with, you know, the right people, I suppose, is the way to put that. So, it's not very, it's not a large community yet. I mean, it's slow growing, which is the way that we have to do it the way that we need to do it. But really, it's, you know, finding that, you know, one or two person here there that, you know, jumps into the Paznia Telegram, oh, you know, committee of correspondence. And, and, yeah, growing it, you know, growing it slowly and in that manner, and, you know, people building up the reputation in the second round, even even digitally, it's not hard, not hard to do. As far as decision making, I mean, I so it's, it's a decentralized distributed country. So like, I call myself the coordinator, I just coordinate things, that's all I do. And so like, it's really just whatever people are driven to do, whatever their passion is, whatever they feel like they want to do for the Pasadena work they can do. So as an example a guy named Josiah Warren synonymous Josiah Warren, started the passing a general Bitcoin Fund, which is obviously a spoof on I'm sure you heard of like the general funds that states have and it's basically just a big, you know, it's a big slush fund for them to you know, to grab money from, but so we copied that and we are Paznia Bitcoin fund. And so I guess the past couple projects who've donated to Aniki he donated to or I guess we donate it to the I guess a whistleblower whistleblowers fund. Oh, we I guess the fund provided money for someone to help start their homestead there's some bounties on I guess on his flow pay on the flow page that he has, where people if people start like aquaponics system if they you know are committed to you know, starting advantage like Van nomad lifestyle, then we can help you with you know, getting your band converted, you know, funds for that. So, yeah, that was not my idea. I didn't I didn't really have that idea, but mutual is important. And he came up with it. And that's that's the thing now, and I don't have any involvement with that. I don't handle the funds. Bia anyway. So yeah, I guess that's that's it. It's, it's kind of self directed, I guess you could say autodidactic country in essence, where we know, we know what needs to be done. And everyone that everyone that joins the network is already forced to forego foregone use of coercion. So at that point is just coming up with solutions, which is what I guess call really like to do so. Yeah.

George Papp  25:32  
Yeah, that's the main thing, isn't it? So does it does everyone live in the same spot? Like is in in the same vicinity? Or is it a network at this point?

Rayo of Vonu Podcast  25:44  
So I guess for for speaking for bear toss, pathania here. So there's two people here me my wife, and then you know, different men other paths and lives here. But as far as the, the network, I mean, it could be a varying situation. Some people have, you know, as part of the patenting network, which we're putting together a map and directory. But I guess these things could range from you know, like the Nomad city squats boss. So if someone's traveling through and they needed a safe place to park, then those spots would be on the map, maybe guerilla gardening patches for Van nomads who are traveling and you know, maybe want to stop and grab some free food or maybe, maybe maybe people can plan their routes around, you know, those those sorts of things. And then, yeah, self sufficient homesteads. I guess, helping local health food stores, you know, places to get, you know, good. You know, good properly raised grass fed meat, like all those things. I mean, that's, that's all again, necessary to the human experience. And if we're gonna have a parallel network, we have to have all access to all those things. So yeah, as like, so no, it's I mean, it's a it's a location independent country. So no, we're not in the same way. I mean, there's there's a so we're here. So Veritas Patagonia is 90 minutes guess 90 minutes or 90 miles east of St. Louis. There's a there's a there's a Patagonia out in Ohio. There's a pet or I guess there's a I guess, a map spot in Ohio. There's one in New York. I saw a forum post about Patagonia, Patagonia. And somewhere in Europe, I don't really know much about it, though, because I don't have to know about it. So yeah, I mean, it's pretty much like people who just declare their independence, you know, join the Paznia network. And, and I guess if and that sense, if people are interested in joining it, we are at like, so weird. Were putting together the map and directory and the more that gets flushed out the better. Because yeah, again, like the nomads could go ahead, and they could shard logistics with everyone. That's that's how we get our logistics and transportation network is by getting this map people can visualize and start planning, actually see the possibilities that are out there. See, if anyone, again, location independent doesn't matter where the hell you are. If you're interested, then we'd certainly love to have you. So passing u.com forward slash join is the is the form to fill out to join. If you have like a spot you want to add to the map. And then if you're if you're no matter of traveler, and you just want access to the network, then it's passing u.com. Forward slash join to is the the form for that. And basically, I'm just kind of accumulating those entries, and getting the map set up and using open open street maps. And I just got to get up to download and hosted. And then it'll be really, really slick. It just embeds nicely into the into the member side of the past news site. And super, super slick. So I'd encourage people to get on board with that for sure.

George Papp  28:17  
Yeah, if we, if we lost you at any point there, just some connection issue. We'll we'll have all the links in the description, show notes. But yeah, definitely check it out. Because it seems interesting. It's a different, it's definitely a different way of doing things. And I like that it's more decentralized and location independent. Because you know, these communities, sometimes it's very difficult to work, right, because of there's too many egos in one place. And decision making is very difficult in those situations. And it often becomes centralized decision making. So yeah, that's interesting. I'll definitely check it out. And I definitely urge you guys to just have a look and see if it aligns with you and see if that has any interest to you. Excellent. Going back to I mean, this will be maybe the last topic before we close. You mentioned the carnivore diet. So I've had many many health guys come here on the show. Talking about the benefits of not eating meat due to you know either biologically we're not made to eat meat and fruit through predominantly and vegetables give us the nutrients we need and the protein aspect is basically another sign up what are your thoughts on that because obviously you're going you know headfirst the other way what's your what's your sort of thoughts on that?

Rayo of Vonu Podcast  29:47  
Yeah, so I guess I will say I did the I did nose tail carnivore for pretty much up until I don't even pull up a calendar to see when I'm maybe stopped. Maybe it was like I'll say like the end As of 2022, I kind of experienced maybe it may be more like, I guess, harvest in 2022 Because I started working back in like Squash. Squash and I can't remember anything else but mainly mainly type squash isn't watermelon. Um, I started working back in. But now I guess I'm not I'm not necessarily I'm not strict carnivore anymore I still eat you know high quality, I still see a huge, huge value and necessity and high quality animal nutrition. So like I still eat like Lea testicles you know, once a month usually I try to for testosterone. I mean, obviously, liver, liver is good. I like brain occasionally. But I mean, I'm working in potatoes, I you know, potatoes now leads, you know, certain types of beans. I make my own, make my own organic bread, white bread for, you know, good, delicious sandwiches. So I guess where I'm more at now is it doesn't really it's less, I guess. It's, it's obviously what you put in your body is important, but what you don't put in there is even more important. So whatever food you're eating, just make sure that the highest quality that you can get, and you're probably not gonna have any issues. Because, you know, we're very, I guess, we're, I guess we're pretty adaptive, you know, in our, in our physiology, as far as as far as I can tell. But yeah, I mean, I still I still do I still do see. Yeah, I think there's there's certain you know, hormones and enzymes and, and like livers so loaded with, you know, with, you know, vitamins and minerals like you would you can't, you can't find easily. So I definitely see a place for especially like so, in, like in a different world where the, the soils aren't completely new nutrient depleted, I would, I would obviously like it'd be nice to you have to spend less effort on you know, like animal husbandry and, you know, be able to get a lot of those minerals and nutrients from, you know, from the ground. But now, like, you know, like, nutrient upcycling with, you know, with beef for Lambs, it's kind of unnecessary. And the other the other aspect too, is like where I am, they still do conventional agriculture. So they spray bullshit fungicides and stuff around. So the lambs and you know, the lambs and the goats, they have a liver that process a lot of that stuff. So it does, it doesn't actually come to me. And obviously, plants have their own filtering mechanisms, too. But that's just an example. So I guess I'm just dogmatic as I was about it before. Because I used to say, and I mean, I still I still would say like, the vegetables you find in grocery stores here in the in the US, probably aren't ideal. And I mean, they aren't found they don't really find it nature. Right. But I, but I mean, like, like, so Yeah, as far as like the court the carnivore diet? Not I guess. It's not It's, I'm not really doing that anymore. But I still, yeah, high quality animal products is still a huge part of my, my lifestyle.

George Papp  32:40  
Sure, yeah. I mean, I've heard so much about the US in regards to their stuff that they have in the grocery stores. I mean, it's just insane. And then like, I mean, I was in the UK, quite similar, actually. Very similar, though, what they have in the grocery stores. And we know, it's all sprayed with Bs, and it's all got chemicals, the fruit, the veg, everything moved to Europe. And I think one thing that Europe does have, is I think they're a bit more food, their nutrition on food is better. In my opinion, even though it is still in common EU, you know, be a centralized authority. But I do think that foodwise they do grow a lot more organically in nature, is it's the people's nature to do that. So I found that a massive difference for myself being moving from the UK to the Mediterranean is that aspect for sure is different. And, you know, we have villages often passed by the House who are older, because there's not many young people here. And we're like new in the village and they will just pass pass by with oranges this season, because it's December. They weren't giving us oranges. They were given us pomegranates in on on in November, because they that was the time of the year that they come out. So it's just an interesting aspect. And they all grow them themselves in their in their own lands, land plots. So they're very self sustainable. Yeah. Which is interesting that they don't they don't do very well with finance over here.

Rayo of Vonu Podcast  34:20  
Yeah. Yeah. So I guess I was just going to add that, you know, speaking it because so if you look back until traditions like Ayurveda, or traditional Chinese medicine, like that with with food and eating to like, like, you know, yes, so like, food is supposed to change seasonally or, like, if you're eating with nature, the food you eat is going to, you know, depend upon, you know, where you are, and what's available at that time. So, like, that's, that's the thing too, like eating and this is why I still I think personally, like, you know, the people who just see like, you know, the feedlot steaks and you know, eggs from the grocery store. Like I don't see that really is like it, like maybe for a time it could, you know, maybe for a time it could, you know, reverse some deficiencies, but at some point it's going Have diminishing returns, especially if you're, you know, consuming so much Atrazine like, like just the terrible stuff that you find and conventional conventional foods, but I guess yeah, that that to like, the first time that that like, for a time my body really crave and it really wanted it really wanted, you know, liver every week and it really wanted to eat brain every week, like I needed to do it. And I think I was just I was I was restoring I was, you know, fixing deficiencies that I'd, you know, grown up with. And then and then it kind of changed. And I started to you know, kind of be drawn towards other foods. And I guess that's that's that's kind of a two is listen to your body. And yeah, I guess that's that's more fun, most important thing.

George Papp  35:43  
Yes. Interesting. I think the only thing with that is that, for example, sometimes my my brain and body wants sugar. Well, yeah, it will crave chocolates and sweets and all kinds of shit. Yeah. So it's difficult sometimes. But I get what you're saying. For sure. High quality produce is important. It's, it's so important. And no one really understands that. I mean, I'm a keen advocate for terrain theory. I believe that that's makes more sense to be honest. I mean, we all know germ theory is from you know, it's making the pharmaceuticals millions and billions every, every time they create a psyop. And then they can make an inversion. And control people make people sick germs. And

Rayo of Vonu Podcast  36:26  
so So germ theory, you know, you got to kill all the germs. Well, what do seeds do? They germinate. So yeah, it's like killing life, essentially, by like, with the words. Crazy.

George Papp  36:38  
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Man. Let's end here with any advice that you can give people who is just starting their journey to freedom, let's say or they've, you know, let's say they've come across information, they kind of know what's going on. But they're not. Let's say they haven't made that first step or they've made one step and they they want to take a full, full path, let's say to freedom, what would be your sort of advice to them?

Rayo of Vonu Podcast  37:07  
Yeah. So really, just overall, it's what I've said for a number of years is you know, the, the name of the game is cutting ties to the civil society. So whatever way you know, one tie at a time, and if if you want like is a more practical example, if you got you know, credit cards and mortgage and these things like don't look at it, like don't look at the mountain you have to climb, because it's going to be like disheartening to see how much like to see how tight house tight and some people are to, to the servile society. Yeah, just one at a time, one step at a time, one day at a time, make make make liberation habits, make it where you're doing one thing a day, regardless, whether it's one super small thing or one, you know, big thing doesn't matter. And if you look back on it, you know, five years later, you don't want you'll wonder what how you got to where you are, you'll look back, and you'll actually see all the progress that you've made. See, like I was saying none of this stuff was playing like I expect to have a 22 acre homestead with, you know, with, hopefully taking it off grid soon, you know, with Breakthrough Energy, potentially, and, you know, building up in a parallel network that's actually like, starting to come into, you know, starting to come into vision, like so. Yeah, I guess the So, yeah, one step at a time. And I guess really the just, again, another piece of practical advice, financial independence is hugely important. And yeah, why people had to do things they didn't, didn't want to do in 2020. Because or 2021, because they were lying upon a paycheck from the civil society. So that's really one of the biggest controllers of the first realm. And the trouble side is that financial aspect right now. So start, you know, start working on silos, whatever you're passionate about, whatever you're feeling drawn to do. I mean, just, you know, go for it, do it, and start, start building start taking steps. And not everything might be not everything will be successful. I did stop water projects over the years, but you'll find those things that are and they'll help you to get out. Get out and get some get your freedom back. So yeah, I guess check out the Vani podcast, we've got it. It's we've been going since 2016. There's a bunch there's a lot episodes, a lot of episodes. But yeah, season one philosophy. Season two is the practice of Vanu only talking about stuff that Rio talked about solution that he talked about in the 60s and 70s. And then season three is our permanently ongoing season, where we develop value, and you know, have really, really incredible conversations, and actually, you know, building and doing things. And so much one of the things we had our we had our first department of technology meeting last night, Matthew Raymer was there along with like, Dave from Start9. I'm Thomas Friedman from pirate box. We had just so many great people there. And yeah, I guess there were, I mean, it's the I thought it was a big task. And I mean, it was a big task, but I thought it was kind of insurmountable one but, you know, there's a building already and it's gonna happen to so get invovled with Paznia and join the second room. I've got in there.

George Papp  39:55  
Sounds good. Yeah, sounds good. It's interesting what you said about looking back at It's so interesting because while you're doing it, you kind of feel like you're not making progress until you look back in years. What you were doing a year or two or three. So yeah, that's the key is the small steps but make those steps don't just look at the mountain. Before you know it, you'll be very close to the peak and you'd be looking down at like, a few years ago you were you were at the bottom there so nice one nice one. So where where can people find you and your work?

Rayo of Vonu Podcast  40:27  
Yeah, so vonupodcast.com V O N U podcast.com is for the podcast for all things Vonu, libertyunderattack.com is our publishing outfits. We all we republished a lot of those old libertarian and VONU zines made them paperbacks. We've got to author clients who published you know, amazing, amazing, you know, crypto goriest anarchist fiction, like Brushfire 2048 2014, our newest one of our newest releases, and hashtag agora second round book on strategy, those are all there too. We also have ghost pads, and ghost phones on the daily publication site. SEO books, privacy tools, and even more as apothecary, some neocon for yourselves and things that we you know, we produce and grow here on the homestead for you know, health purposes. So I guess and then paznia.com P A Z N I A.com to learn all about the second realm network currently under construction. With that, George, I appreciate the invitation to come on and you have a great conversation

George Papp  41:27  
fantastic, yeah, thank you very much. Definitely check out all of those links will have them all in the show notes. Also, check out our website, the renegade sorry, renegade lifestyle.net And remember to share and subscribe to this podcast and Vonu podcast as well. And if you know someone who will find this value of value, definitely share it to them and, you know, share our both of our podcasts really, for valuable information to help enlighten people to freedom and make those first steps so yeah, peace and love to you. Thanks for listening.