Renegade Lifestyle

Privacy and Censorship Resistant Technology Solutions: Matthew Raymer

June 27, 2022 George Papp Season 1 Episode 4
Renegade Lifestyle
Privacy and Censorship Resistant Technology Solutions: Matthew Raymer
Show Notes Transcript

Want to learn how to be censorship resistant online? Matthew Raymer, a freelance researcher, serial entrepreneur and technologist specializing in software engineering and computational physics speaks out against online censorship. He holds degrees in Physics, Mathematics and Computer Science with published work in the field of Computational Biophysics. Recognizing the value of community, Matthew has contributed to the open source software community in projects such as BitTorrent and HAProxy and advocates for technologies such as decentralized communication tools, IPFS, microcomputers and cryptocurrencies. Learn from Matthew as he divulges information he has learned after 30 years of consulting for government agencies and corporations, and details how we can address the threats these entities pose to individual privacy and freedom of speech.

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Renegade Lifestyle Podcast

Matthew Raymer
Anomalist Design Software Firm

Keep your Content Safe from Censorship

Matthew's Underground Podcast

George Papp  0:08  
Hi, welcome to the conscious renegade podcast with me, George Papp, helping you to be the change you wish to see in the world.

Today, we are joined by Matthew of Anomalist Design. And we'll be discussing alternative tech solutions, determining strategies to free people from the current sort of mainstream tech solutions. And obviously the coming Great reset, How are you Matt? and thanks for coming on.

Matthew Raymer  0:51  
Oh, George, thank you. I'm doing quite fine. And yourself.

George Papp  0:56  
Excellent. Yeah. Thanks again, for coming on. We obviously have been in touch previously, and not just here today. But we've been discussing, obviously tech solutions for my business and discussing other solutions. And it's very interesting to get that sort of perspective for me. So I guess, well, can we start, I guess, where you started, in your journey to where you are now anomalous design, and how you sort of got sort of involved in the sort of freedom of movement?

Matthew Raymer  1:28  
Well, you know, as far as my history, my background, I was born in the Midwest, United States, in Kentucky. And I was always very interested in the eclectic subjects. So I've been involved in music whenever I was, in high school, I did about six years of formal music training, that included music theory. But toward the end of my high school tenure, I got interested in the sciences, particularly computer science and physics. And I wrote my first software whenever I was 13. I had my first company whenever I was 15. And I got very interested in scientific programming. So that got me into college, I triple majored in mathematics, computer science and physics. And I'm published in computational biophysics. And that got me really interested in problem solving. So I've been very interested in difficult edge cases, and just deep problems, difficult problems. Whenever I entered graduate school in physics, I found though, that I was kind of discontented with the idea of staying in physics my whole life. So I took a year off. And that set me off on a pathway of kind of traveling. At the same time, I also started after a year, I started a master's degree in computer science, but then I was traveling in Southeast Asia, where I ended up getting married to a local in Southeast Asia. And after going back to finish my master's degree, I came back and married her and have lived there ever since. Because of my degrees and my connections, I was able to do a lot of freelance work early on in the late 90s. And I realized by about 10 years or so living here that I needed to be making more substantially more money to be able to support two children and a wife. So I ended up contacting my classmates and getting involved in consulting with them and ended up doing work for various corporations and, and occasionally, some government agencies. Which kind of got me introduced to the world. I, I lived in kind of a shell very idealistic family. My dad was what I would call a classic old school conspiracy theorist. throughout my teenage years, he tried to convince me that the world was run by the bankers and that they were taking over everything and I even though I loved my dad and had a lot of respect for him, I thought that he was a little crazy. Didn't realize, as I grew older and experienced dealing with government and dealing with corporations that he was more right than was comfortable to be right. I know I experienced 911 Here In Southeast Asia, and it was, it was kind of surreal for me. Because, of course, you live here long enough, you really don't feel like you're part of the West anymore, even though you might have the passport. And so it took me a while to kind of wake up to the fact that something was wrong about the way things were going in the West. So I would say, even though my dad had been telling me things were going wrong, my whole childhood. It wasn't until I got to my late 30s That I was like, wow, you know what dad was right about all that. And it took me down the rabbit hole I, as I like to tell people I gave up on mainstream media around 2007. That was before I really felt like I understood what was going on. I just had a feeling from listening that what they were telling me didn't match reality. And it wasn't until about, say 2011 2012 That I had finally encountered someone like Alex Jones. And while I found it kind of distasteful to listen to. I also found that my own experience with the world kind of resonated with some of the things he was saying. Now, at one point, I'd say quickly, after about a year of listening to him, I had to give up.

Cuz it was too stressful to listen to him. What but in the interim, I began to meet people like James Corbett, and Richard Grove and a variety of other people, because there are people that were publishing back in that time period that no longer Publish. And it really began a blossoming of my understanding of the world and connecting the dots and saying, Well, you know, what, if anybody is going to look out for me, it has to be me, that looks out for me. I can't rely on governments or institutions to do that, because they won't look out for me. Now, I knew, from my own experience, that there had been calls for censorship of the internet, starting even back in the mid 90s. I have this anecdote. I liked Excel of sitting in a database management class in graduate school, and having the instructor come in and say it like in 1994. He said, This internet cannot stay open, it has to be closed. And I remember thinking at the time, no, no, I think it should be open. And that's all been a thought in the back of my head. So whenever I got into this frame of mind of questioning everything that I was being told, officially, I started collecting information. And if you're a geek like me, and you have lots of data, you want to write tools to help organize and keep that data and disseminate that data. I got involved early on even before that, I got involved in the BitTorrent community as far as the actual back end software part of it. And I was very interested in distributed technologies. So I started leveraging what I understood about that and other tools to upload shows of people to BitTorrent that I thought were important for people to hear. So I remember I did a lot of James Corbett stuff I did a lot of Mark Passios stuff. Richard Grove, I did a lot of his stuff. I don't know if you're familiar with the work of Richard and James.

George Papp  8:53  
I definitely am. I'm sure many of the listeners are as well. I guess just to quickly interrupt there. Were just some people who don't know what BitTorrent is. Just explain what that is. And what it does. Basically,

Matthew Raymer  9:10  
BitTorrent is a is a networking protocol, which let's just call it a program is a network program that allows large files to be distributed by many different people. Thus, in the aggregate, producing an efficient tree transfer of large files without in any individual person having to share more of the burden. So in essence, if your ISP had a limitation on how much data could be coming from one person, this could get around that because you could take a very large multi gigabyte file, chop it up into tiny little bits, and then have 100 People send it to you, and she would end up getting Get the maximum capacity of your internet, if that makes sense. Yeah.

George Papp  10:04  
Okay. Makes sense. And going back to your conversation there about your way you sort of realize the world was how it was. It's interesting when it's like when you actually end up working in corporations or government or with them. That's a huge part of actually realizing what's going on

Matthew Raymer  10:26  
starting a starting a business can be shocking. And I know I've heard people say that the number of people who start businesses isn't as much as it used to be. So you have people making assumptions about what it means to have a business. And they don't really understand how difficult it is to have a business. And that you need to respect that and not think that simply because someone has a business, that they're that they have some privilege of some kind, they actually have a lot of nasty responsibilities. And don't always get treatment. Try setting up a business in Southeast Asia. As I've said to other people, I hear a lot of expats that come here, assuming that if they made it in the first world, it's easier in the in the developing nation. And I would say now, simply because you made it in the a developed nation, it's actually quite a bit harder to make a business work here. And that's a whole other show all by itself.

George Papp  11:38  
Yes. Yeah. I mean, there's other problems with that, isn't it? It's not, it's easier to set up stuff in in the US and the West, in a sense, get things aligned. But then, there are obviously downsides to how organized it is over there as well. But then there's a lot of downsides to how unorganized it could be in the third world. By the year, you navigate them guessing. And it's definitely worth the pros outweigh the cons, I'm sure.

Matthew Raymer  12:08  
Yeah, yeah. It's, yeah, we've managed to figure out how to get to get by. Yeah. And to be, you know, successful, I would counted as successful. And I've really only met one other expat that could have done it. The rest of them kind of like cry, mercy and leave.

George Papp  12:33  
It's really a good, you know, having the skills if you know, some of you guys in the audience is still working nine to five. You know, to get out of that, I mean, just learn skills, like, I mean, especially online skills. I mean, I'm sure you can advocate for that. But it's release you from the nine to five, and then you can potentially, you know, do contract work for different companies or, you know, from anywhere in the world. So you're not sort of trapped in one place. So that's one thing that I guess you can take away from this. I'm sure. Yeah, I mean, I guess moving to, let's say, the traditional topics of the actual traditional tech, industry and solutions to the I mean, why do we need to move away from traditional tech solutions, and what our guests are the traditional tech solutions currently, like, obviously, registering a domain, hosting a website on a centralized system, or even just obviously, our everyday tech, like, potentially Apple and Android and Mac and stuff like that. So yeah, just describe, I guess, why we potentially need to move away or what solutions there are to potential censorship or tracking or yeah, just anything you can actually advise on?

Matthew Raymer  13:56  
Well, let me step back a bit and talk about one of my favorite writers as a backdrop for why we need to be getting away from corporate tech. One of my favorite writers is a fellow by the name of Jacques Ellul. He wrote a book back in the 1950s, called the technological society. And in it, he gave a meta analysis of the scholarship and movements that were occurring before his time that were going to lead to a technocratic world state. Now, Ellul's work is dark, it's very, very, very dark. Most of the people who are who are listening, I am sure, have encountered Ellul's work in some form. They just didn't realize that they were encountering it. So for instance, the the name slipped my mind, the fellow that went around blowing up the people from technological companies. He lived out in the forest. He was the victim of MK or ultra

George Papp  15:14  
The name surpasses me.

Matthew Raymer  15:16  
Yeah, you think you know who I'm talking about

George Papp  15:19  
I think I've heard of this.

Unknown Speaker  15:20  
Yes. And for some reason that name slipped my mind completely up. Hold on, let me let me search real quick. So anyway, but this fellow had Ellul's work in his bookshelf, whenever they finally caught him. And he thought that if we didn't abandon he was a primitivist not Ellul. But this person, I would say crazy person. He was a primitive said we should abandon all technology because it was going to kill us. And Ellul's is a bit more nuanced than that. But his argument was that it was the soul seeking for efficiency, not only through technological means sweat through procedural means that we're going to ultimately kill humanity. Before he died, he became more optimistic. The reason he became more optimistic was because of microcomputers. Because in the early time, in computers, the only person who could own a computer was a corporation or a government. So that power to be able to use computation and leverage its power for you as an individual, it moved from on high down to your hands. And now we carry around devices in our hands, powerful than anything that was made in the 1950s. So he saw that as a chance to escape the death of humanity. Because it allowed the individual to have more control over their own life, and to choose how they were going to live. Whereas before that, it looked like the cards were all against us that it was going to be central top down control for the rest of us for the rest of humanity's existence. Ellul didn't really live to see the internet. And the internet is that next phase liberation. And I wish I wish I had known what he would have thought about cryptocurrencies, which is potentially another level of liberation. What we're losing whenever we hand this back to corporations, is our very liberty to decide on how we're going to live our lives. We often think of it only in terms of spying, but it's more than that. It's the actual ability to make your own decisions. So what happened with the cloud was the cloud is the attempt to destroy the power that the micro computer could give to the individual. If we don't keep with all of our minds, the ability to have computational power and communications tools that we control, we're going to lose that liberty that allows us to decide how we're going to live. So what do I suggest we do about that? Well, it's beyond technology. I believe it starts with the community, the people around you, I think that every solution begins within the person. Even though I'm a technologist, I really do believe in the individual. And I also believe in the community. We need we are social creatures, we need interaction. So when we work on our inner work, we need to make that inner work so that we can relate to a group of people who are obliged mind. And it's another topic entirely, but I do not believe that necessarily, humanity can or has to have uniformity of belief, nor to necessarily want to be around one another. But you will find people that you can be around people that you can resonate with, and you need to find those people. We don't want to be individuals atomized so that we're easier to control. We want to be clusters of individuals that help one another. And that can be in the form of family it can be in the form of a club. For those people who are more religious, it can be in the form of an ashram or a church or synagogue. But when Eat these communities that's where we need to start.

George Papp  20:09  
Yeah, the sort of the base foundation level, I spoke to Paul, previously on this topic, it's like, we have to have a foundation of inner work done, where you can at least, like push aside the ego and realize what we're doing and why we're doing it instead of, you know, just jumping straight into, you know, grabbing the technology that helps you with privacy, I think it's more of why are we doing this? And how can it help in a community setting as well?

Unknown Speaker  20:37  
Right. And, you know, another thing that my favorite writer Ellul said was that we need to understand that progress can be a myth. We've got all these tools. Well, why do I need a faster? jet plane? Do I need a faster jet plane? Right? Do I need to be able to get from Hong Kong to London in five minutes? Or am I just by moving faster? I'm going nowhere fast. So what does the individual develop and the Community Development provides purpose and meaning, we can then guide our technological decisions based on purpose and meaning. I don't believe that the modern world as it stands, at least the secular world can provide that. So with that in mind, we can talk about technology. Yeah, I would, I would say that everything starts with learning how to properly use tools. So I see a lot of people that they they have these powerful cell phones, or they have these powerful computers, but they, they don't know how to leverage the tool. So it ends up being used for things that are counterproductive. I'm not against playing games, and not against cinema I indulge in, I don't indulge in games anymore. I've grown out of that. But I do watch cinema. And I think you need to be careful what you watch. Because there's no such thing as cinema that isn't built to frame your mind.

George Papp  22:21  
Yeah, 100% is, whatever you indulge, you become in a way. So yeah, we have to write with you after Yeah, be careful what you watch. But yeah.

Matthew Raymer  22:34  
But beyond that, do I know how to use this technology effectively and efficiently so that it can aid me in that mission of purpose? And to me, that's the next step. If we're going to talk about technology, it's all framed in purpose. Exactly. After that, how can I adequately communicate with people across technology? Do I always need to have a video call? Or can I just use email? Or should I be How should I utilize chat? Just all of these beautiful tools were provided with that we can end up wasting our time, and they won't be fit to our purpose anymore. conscious of

George Papp  23:24  
that? Yeah. Because I think there is a good, you can utilize for good and for bad this these, these tools. They're just tools. And a lot of people might say, potentially, I mean, I've, you know, potentially you could actually get rid of old technology and then just live in a community that has that bad, you know, living like, the old way. But if you are getting involved in these tools, which can help as well. There are Yeah, there are good uses. And bad news is obviously we've got social media, the majority of it is just used for creating emotions that are going to, you know, make you basically the jealous or, you know, the envy, the lust, right, basically, I mean, this is basically, it can really get you into a bad road. But then you've also got tools like for example IPFS, we've got other types of social media, which are not really based on that, which are more based on freedom and community building that can help in a good way for our community. So yeah, absolutely.

Matthew Raymer  24:34  
And that brings us into specific kinds of technology. So as you said, IPFS is one of those technologies that I think is going to be helpful to the furtherance of the individual and the community because it's not owned by anybody. It's a tool similar to bit torrent that I described. earlier, that allows you to share files without worrying about necessarily where they're stored. You can upload them on your computer, you share the link with other people. And it proliferates with the popularity of the link. So the more people who are interested in it, the faster downloads and the more secure it is, because it's stored in many different places. That's the simplistic explanation of how it works. So

George Papp  25:34  
Can people for example, I know there's a lot of issues with censorship? And yes, I guess would IPFS be that solution for, you know, if people host a website, can it be taken down, you know, let's say if it's just hosted on a standard centralized system? Well,

Matthew Raymer  25:53  
if you use certain tools with IPFS, it would be next to impossible to censor. But if you just use the web based solutions, it would be possible to get a partial censorship. So the, the way IPFS IPFS works is it's got its own software there, we will call them nodes. And these nodes are where the actual files that you upload get stored. But there are also what are called gateways. And these gateways are set up on domain names. And you can then access the files that were on the nodes through your browser. Those gateways can be censored at the DNS level. So there are dozens of gateways out there. And while you might see a file get censored on some gateways, it won't be censored on all gateways. So what I would say to the new, the newbie, the person who's only getting into it, that they need to be aware of what these other gateways are. But as you grow in your expertise of the system, you need to understand how to use the node itself. Now, you're familiar with brave, brave browser? Yes. Brave, integrates IPFS nodes into the browser. So whenever you work with Brave you, you actually have an IPFS node in the browser. So it's, it's ahead of the game.

George Papp  27:34  
Right. Okay. So just any of you out there who's not unaware of brave browser is the well, it's a browser, but also assert they have a search engine as an alternative to you know, Google or even DuckDuckGo. Nowadays, right? Fully private, censorship resistant, would you say?

Matthew Raymer  27:53  
It's censorship resistant, that on the downside, Brave is based off of the Chromium browser, so they have to try to take the updates of chromium and scrub any of the monitoring that goes on inside the source code for chromium? And they do a pretty good job at that. But it is something to be aware of that they're using a Google product as their basis, because browsers are quite complicated.

George Papp  28:24  
Sure, I mean, is that the best solution? So far that we have four browsers

Unknown Speaker  28:30  
That we have available, that we have available, but I already know communities that are trying to write their own browsers that are almost totally open source? But like I said, browsers are very complicated. So there's nothing out there, I would necessarily recommend to the average person.

George Papp  28:51  
Sure. So I guess who have brave as the option, the easy option right now. If any of you still use Google out there, I mean, switch to brave, as well, I would say really, even that goes, I think it's been out there now that they're not even private in the sense so

Unknown Speaker  29:11  
well, they're gonna censor that they've admitted that they will censor. And I would say that there are again, a lot of these technologies are not for the average user yet. But there are systems out there that provide distributed search, which is another problem that we need to be addressing. Simply being able to share files is not enough. You need to be able to find them. Being able to index the files that are on IPFS is a difficult problem that's being worked on presently. Are you familiar with the site presearch?

George Papp  29:49  
I've definitely heard of presearch. Yes.

Unknown Speaker  29:53  
I actually am supposed to be meeting with the CEO of those of that company, because I know someone who knows this Yeah. And they're offering a very valuable service that they're doing what Duck Duck, go, failed to do. And in fact, they actually pulled their data from Google and DuckDuckGo. But they also offer other aggregations of data. Myself, I've been looking very seriously into a product called yesI. It's Y A C Y it's been around since around 2012. It's a Java based search engine. Again, this is not for your average user. But it's available that it allows people to set up a index, and then it's connected to hundreds or 1000s of other Yacy nodes. So if you want to search the internet, you could search it without using any of the big corporate companies. Cool.

George Papp  30:58  
That's definitely worth checking out. Yacy. I haven't actually heard of those guys before. What's the difference? I guess, between presearch and let's say brave,

Matthew Raymer  31:08  
as an example. Well, presearch is a web portal that you have to go to, to in using a browser. Whereas Brave is a browser, right? And brave does not provide search services. It just provides a web browser. There is a

George Papp  31:29  
brave search, I believe now. I'm not too sure. Yeah. So it's actually just not long came out. So maybe it'll be worth checking out. Brave search engine? That's what I use?

Matthew Raymer  31:42  
No. Yeah, thank you, because I did not know that they had a search engine. Do you know if this is done, centralized, or if it's decentralized,

George Papp  31:55  
the way it's very easy to use, I would suggest is potentially centralized. Because it's very easy to use, right? A lot of decentralized stuff is not easy to use, yet, it will improve, right, but that's where we should be moving to, of course. But the main, I think the main first step is to move away from Google. I think that's where everyone should be moving away from, then let's say you know, you're using brave for a while, and you're calm confidence sort of move on to you know, more decentralized and more complex stuff, you know, then you've got, for example, UFC and you've got presearch, potentially to move on to be is, is always a progress and a process is not something that happens, you know, instantly, you're gonna go from Google to like using some sort of decentralized node system or, you know, building your own browser is always a process, right?

Matthew Raymer  32:48  
Oh, absolutely. And that fits with the way I started our discussion, that this begins with you refining yourself what you know, and then sharing with other people, one of my ambitions for this year, because I also teach technology to people. And I'm putting together some courses on IPFS. And I hope within this year to be building a mega corpse that would encompass not only the technologies such as a IPFS, but it would also include the assay, and one of probably about a half a dozen other cryptocurrency based file sharing systems. Because you've got file coin, which is made by the same people who did IPFS. And you've got our we've and you got storage, and you got sky coin. All of these are search engines, excuse me, search your file sharing systems. And even presearch is a cryptocurrency. Incidentally, yeah.

George Papp  34:01  
I'll give you the an example of why this is important. You know, for example, if we've got files and actual just data, or work or books or anything that has been produced, if we go down the route of centralized, censored way, any information can just be burnt, and will not be able to be seen again. And this is the issue right? Then basically, centralized governments or big tech can basically just decide what informations on the internet and then basically sway any community to be a certain way and not even find information on anything else. Now, with decentralized options, this can't happen. So therefore, we can save that information and they will be there forever in a sense, as long as internet's around, which is very important to actually have that other option, and actually have that as something that can be you'd not be destroyed? Can these decentralized systems be be censored? Or basically be infiltrated in any way just to sort of go into that little bit?

Matthew Raymer  35:14  
Um, was it too, like, I think that it's going to be too difficult to take out something like IPFS, the easiest thing to do is to take out the gateways. It's sort of like, you know, there was all that talk a decade ago about getting rid of BitTorrent. There's BitTorrent is still here. And the reason it's still here is because it's 10s of 1000s of people utilizing it. And the policing of that is impossible. Yeah. That's what we're trying to build with, with IPFS. This is an opportunity for and I preach this to content creators, this is the opportunity to start building that super network that sits on top of the internet, and is uncensored.

George Papp  36:12  
Yeah, we were discussing. For my website, we need, we basically need to, obviously, for a quick start, just got it started. But I know how important is going to be for myself and others to just get onto this stuff, especially coming in and listening.

Matthew Raymer  36:29  
And let me just hasten to say that even though I'm really advocating IPFS right now, I think I'm doing that mainly, because it's the most mature, it's got the most adoption at the moment. But that doesn't mean that there aren't alternatives out there. Because there are certain things that are more difficult to do on IPFS, that other systems can do easier. And like, say having a database, you really can't have a database on IPFS. Or you can, but it behaves in a way that's not traditional. So there are alternatives to IPFS that maybe down the road, we should be considering. And let's say that they're in the laboratory at the moment. Yeah, so like, I'm really happy that there are entire videos, portals, like in front ends that have been built for IPFS, there is a version of get hub that was built using IPFS. So you can build some really radical tools. But it's gonna take us time to get people familiar with how to use them. And we also have to have people contributing to that effort so that the bandwidth is sufficient to service a large number of people.

George Papp  37:57  
Yeah, and I think that really does move to my next sort of question, how can I guess people get involved in the projects that you've suggested? Or even, you know, just get involved in this alternative tech space?

Matthew Raymer  38:13  
What I would say start with, just go to the IPFS website, download the software, and play with it. Try to read the documentation. It's actually not that hard to use. In fact, I'm trying to offer a fairly like an hour, sort, of course that step people through understanding what it is, and how to how to utilize it in the basic way. So that's how you get started. Just play with it. Yeah.

George Papp  38:48  
And also, I think, doing courses on it, it's not really just to promote your view, essentially, I've done so many courses to just give me that Head Start of you know, how to use something, how to do something, because obviously, with crypto, that's how I started as well, I didn't, you can, I guess go down the route of sort of being manual and going through and learning it on your own, of course, because sometimes, you know, really accelerate that. And it gives you leverage in regards to if you want to find online work again, or if you want to build your own business, it helps you do that, because you're learning skills that others don't really know, especially in these sort of sectors, because they're only growing and pretty much no one's doing it. In this in comparison. So obviously the world population, there's not many people who are dealing with IPFS who even know what it is. So yeah, get a head start, I think, in my opinion,

Unknown Speaker  39:42  
Oh, for sure. And that's been my talking about business. My philosophy has always been stay as close to the bleeding edge as possible. I tell my kids whenever they learn things, learn stuff that the average person's not interested in learning but you know that people need. So, my son studied chemical engineering because it provides him with experience working with electrical engineering, mechanical engineering and chemistry. So he, he's assured that he's gonna, someone's gonna need his skills.

George Papp  40:19  
Yep, exactly, there's a lot of necessity and need in especially the sectors that we discuss here. Definitely, with with technology, I mean, people will soon in my opinion, realize that they would need these solutions. Because I only see this may be getting a lot worse in a technology standpoint, for sure. Like, let's say, if you're living off grid in a community, you know, grocery and food and isn't really using technology, that's fine. But let's say if we are using technology, there is I think, going to come a point where you're gonna have to really give up a lot of your freedom to use this technology. And if we have these alternatives, you know, let's say if there's a digital ID to enter the internet, we're gonna have alternatives, in my opinion. So I don't think you know, let's give up now, because you know, they're going to create a digital ID, if they do, we'll probably have a decentralized web, at some point

Matthew Raymer  41:13  
mesh, mesh networks. Yeah. And, as I've often said, that people talk about shutting down the internet, which I do not think that they want to do, they do not want to shut down the internet, they, that's their major intelligence gathering apparatus. But if they did shut down the internet, I could have a local area network just on equipment. Within a month, I could have my own local internet running within a month, because you've got all these routers just sitting around everywhere. Well, if the, if the larger internet was down, I could provide my community with connectivity. And you might say, Well, what use is that, let me tell you, what we have just laying around unused, all products, our, our grandparents would have given their left arm to have the ability to communicate like that over a short range. Because it's better than a walkie talkie. Here,

George Papp  42:21  
it's amazing how the throwaway society is, you know, we've just grown to just throw anything that's even a year or two old now. That's right. Excellent. Well, I guess what advice sort of key takeaways, I know you've given quite a lot of advice and key takeaways already. But just to sort of summarize, what would you give our listeners to implement these sort of strategies into their lives?

Matthew Raymer  42:52  
Oh, I would say, begin by just watching YouTube videos about the technology. I think, rather than advocating going out and paying money for a course, there's a lot of free material out there. If you find yourself frustrated, then you might look for a paid course, to learn how to use this stuff. But that's really, it really begins with the individual to decide to go out and learn how to use these tools. Yeah.

George Papp  43:27  
And if you think, again, when it comes down to the foundation of why we're using, and then when you see the importance, you will then be like, Okay, I need to search for IPFS I need to search for alternatives. Yeah, so I guess everyone check out brave check out IPFS. Yeah, see, ya see why. Any others?

Matthew Raymer  43:49  
That we, I think, a little bit more experience, I would say look into mesh networks.

George Papp  43:56  
That's definitely on my list. Actually. It's not something I've explored personally. But it's definitely something on my list.

Matthew Raymer  44:04  
And I would recommend everybody switch either to brave search, which you just introduced to me or to pre search.

George Papp  44:11  
Yeah, that's something that everyone can do today. And it's quite easy. Especially if you want something very easy. Just switch the brave browser, sort of Google Chrome, or edge, for example, and use brave search engine instead of Google. And you know, it's very simple. And it's and it works very well even earn basic attention token as well. So you actually earn a little bit of cryptocurrency using it. Google doesn't pay you anything to use it.

Matthew Raymer  44:41  
They just sell your they sell your data.

George Papp  44:45  
Exactly. So there's no losses there. You probably get better information as well, because a lot of it's censored on Google as well. So yeah, all right. Nice one. Well, thanks for joining me today and I look forward to having you on again. If due to potential I enjoyed it. Excellent. Make sure you subscribe to the podcast on iTunes or Spotify. Plus, if you're interested in having one to one consulting to prepare your wealth for the great reset, check out the episode show notes for a link to crypto animus Also, we'll put all the links to Matt's material, Anomalist Design, if you're interested in obviously moving your website or any of your businesses onto IPFS. Or if you want web design or any sort of tech solution, you know, we'll put stuff in the description as well. So definitely check it out. Peace and love to you and thanks again. 

Matthew Raymer  45:40  
Thanks, George. 

George Papp  45:42  
Thank you